Please use this post for further comments in the above thread, which originally appeared under the title “A Practical Positron Rocket?”
Practical Positron Rocket Overflow Thread #2
by Paul Gilster | Oct 8, 2007 | Advanced Rocketry | 265 comments
by Paul Gilster | Oct 8, 2007 | Advanced Rocketry | 265 comments
Please use this post for further comments in the above thread, which originally appeared under the title “A Practical Positron Rocket?”
In Centauri Dreams, Paul Gilster looks at peer-reviewed research on deep space exploration, with an eye toward interstellar possibilities. For many years this site coordinated its efforts with the Tau Zero Foundation. It now serves as an independent forum for deep space news and ideas. In the logo above, the leftmost star is Alpha Centauri, a triple system closer than any other star, and a primary target for early interstellar probes. To its right is Beta Centauri (not a part of the Alpha Centauri system), with Beta, Gamma, Delta and Epsilon Crucis, stars in the Southern Cross, visible at the far right (image courtesy of Marco Lorenzi).
If you'd like to submit a comment for possible publication on Centauri Dreams, I will be glad to consider it. The primary criterion is that comments contribute meaningfully to the debate. Among other criteria for selection: Comments must be on topic, directly related to the post in question, must use appropriate language, and must not be abusive to others. Civility counts. In addition, a valid email address is required for a comment to be considered. Centauri Dreams is emphatically not a soapbox for political or religious views submitted by individuals or organizations. A long form of the policy can be viewed on the Administrative page. The short form is this: If your comment is not on topic and respectful to others, I'm probably not going to run it.
yes jim we had better act wisely and fast i agree before humans fail to explore space because they have destroyed themselves. popular sf idea that just might come true if we do not “wake up and smell the coffee! no kidding.good posting. your friend george
Hi George;
Thanks for the above posting and response. The sf concept reminds me of the original Planet of the Apes series.
It occurred to me to mention the concept of doing more for less, that is, traveling over interstellar or intergalactic distances using very little energy.
I do not know how such could be accomplished, however, if the existence of hidden quantum mechanical variables was some how missed, perhaps a means for inducing very large scale mass-wise, energy barrier wise, and spatial temporal distance wise quantum mechanical tunneling might be possible using very little or next to no energy. Almost impossible tunneling events in terms of ordinary practical probabilites might be precisely controlled on an as demand basis for inducing quantum leap transports of large space craft of arbitrary mass, size, and arbitrary wave functions. Such tunnelling events might transport a craft or even individual human persons to locations such as very remote cosmic locations in space and/or time, higher dimensional space and/or time, higher dimensional parallel spacetime, parallel dimensional space time, other universes, paralell universes and the like. Perhaps in the extreme, whole planets, stars, and galaxies, and even observable portions of a universe could be transported via such controlled quantum mechanical tunneling technologies. I must admit if controlled quantum mechanical tunneling is possible, the likelyhood of being able to induce tunneling of these large objects might not come until quadrillians of years of technological evolution has occurred.
If there are indeed no hidden quantum mechanical variables, perhaps the fundamental quantum mechanical variables that exist are simple or non composite meaning that they are not expressable in terms of a finer or more fundamental set of hidden or non-hidden uncloakable variables, but yet, still have some sort of deeper metaphorical structure which can be grabbed onto inorder to develope such technology for low energy, on demand quantum mechanical tunneling events that would otherwise be extraordinarilly improbable.
Now its been known that the geometric shape of a tunneling energy barrier effects the probability of a particles tunneling through the energy barrier so perhaps finding ways to precisely shape the energy barrier for space craft to some “needle in a hey stack shape” that would unlock the tunneling potential for the craft could be used to induce the craft to tunnel over interstellar or even cosmic distances in spacetime such as in very remote cosmic locations in space and/or time, higher dimensional space and/or time, higher dimensional parallel spacetime, parallel dimensional space time, other universes, paralell universes and the like.
Perhaps there are unforeseen shapes and/or energy level distributions within tunneling boundaries or barriers that can be computed with much more advanced future super computers to enable the unlocking of such on demand large scale tunnelling action of space craft. Perhaps such technologies could involve tunneling over only a very short distance such as through any subset of the compactified dimensions of string theory or the theory of branes to reduce the distance required to tunnel to reach very remote cosmic locations in space and/or time, higher dimensional space and/or time, higher dimensional parallel spacetime, parallel dimensional space time, other universes, paralell universes and the like. The use of compactified string theory higher dimensions and the like would promote a much more managable tunneling shortcut according to this concept. Note that the size of such higher dimensions might be tiny, as small as the Planck Distance of 10 EXP -35 meters thus making the tunneling technology much more feasable than otherwise assuming the initial interdimensional barrier between ordinary 4-D general relativistic space time and the higher supersymmetric string theory dimensions could be breached without destroying the space craft.
If the entire space craft could not be made to tunnel such huge distances on demand in a timely manner by attempting to modify its overall wavefunction tunneling based prabability, perhaps the craft could be made to tunnel as a unit by inducing the collective controlled tunneling of differential volumetric units of the space craft such as for individual craft atoms. molecules, or perhaps nanometer or even micrometer scaled volumetric elements of the space craft containing thousands to trillions of atoms each. If such acts of collective tunneling could result in all of the crafts elements showing up in the same location in the same relative positions and with the same atomic bound energy states as before the tunneling event, the craft might effectively be tunneled as a unity.
As a personal reflection, I tend to think in terms of Big, Large, or Powerful and the reader of my postings will have long since noticed this by now. Perhaps this is a psychological artifact in some way of being a large man, although a gentle man. As a young boy, even in elementary school, I always enjoyed the biggest, highest, fastest, most powerful, and baddest of machines such as those described in the Guiness Book of World Records. I used to eagerly await the arrival on the store shelves of every new, annually published, and updated issue. However, with the comming shortage of fossil fuels and the need to improve energy efficiencey in cars and domestic household appliances, and the like, I have often found myself pondering the more for less energy mantra in terms of interstellar manned space travel over the past few years. It would seem that the more we can do for less in terms of space travel, the longer useful cosmic civilization lifetime we will have as the universe continues to expand to what some models refer to as the ultimate thermodynamic heat death or great freeze. Perhaps another eposode of cosmic inflation will occur in the very remote cosmic future thus restocking the supply of energy in the heat dying universe along with a huge perhaps richer variety of particles, numbers and types of physical spacial-temporal dimensions, physical constants, etc, for our distance descendents or our progeny to enjoy. Perhaps such phase changes will occur repeatedly over huge cosmic time intervals thus allowing a chance for all the more ETI lifeforms to develope and thrive in an ever greater variety of forms. As an individual who believes in a life after physical bodilly death, I believe that in the depths of eternity, we as humans might have the oppurtuinity to meet and bond with any such fascinating future creatures.
That’s all for know.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
jim your 100% right i have noticed by now as i am sure we all have that you do indeed think BIG that is a good thing and better than not,but i sure wish afew more persons with big dreams would add their voices here.we have seen some of that before but never in a steady way.i’ve been told in the past that alot of people do read here who do not then jump in.hope that they will soon.as we have said before no idea to big no idea to small ! respectfully to one and all your friend george
Hi George;
Thanks for the response and kind words.
I was thinking on the subject of energy as I was out driving tonight and it occured to me that there might be other agents of change or activity within the cosmos that largely lay dormant or hidden within our universe. The concept involves notions such as the agency of physical variables to cause radical change such as phases changes, periods of cosmic inflation, symmetry breaking in terms of the seperation of unified fields and the like.
One example of a theoretical construct that brings this concept to mind was the concern that theorists had that an experiment that was safely conducted without incident posed the remote possibility that the subject particle accelerator experiment could have resulted in a run away phase change that might have accordingly spread througout the universe in an unstopable manner converting all matter into strange matter thus destroying all stars including super dense neutron stars, planets, ETI life forms, humans, Earth and the like. The concern over this possibility was strong enough that the U.S. government ordered a study by top theoreticians to certify that the experiment would be safe to conduct. As it turned out, the experiement was conducted without incident and can be duplicated without any risk except perhaps one that is infinitesimal or nearly so.
Another example that comes to mind is of the phase changes that occured during the freeze outs or the branching off of the seperated components of the gravatic-strong-electroweak unification into the force of gravity and the strong-electroweak seperate components, and then from the strong -electroweak into the strong and electroweak components, and then from the electroweak into the weak nuclear force and the electromagnetic force. Each of these phase changes resulted in an abrupt change in the physical laws and operating principles of the universe.
Yet another example involves the notion of inflationary expansion of our universe that accordingly took place from about 10 EXP – 35 seconds after the big bang to 10 EXP – 33 seconds after the Big Bang during which the universe expanded 10 EXP 26 times according to many inflationary model versions. Inflation is credited to have smoothed out the inhomogenieties that would other wise have resulted in the large scale observable structures within our observable universe and the structures within the local non-observable portions of our universe.
Yet another example involves the notion of what a naturally or artificially uncloaked macroscopically massed singularity or naked singularity could do to our universe including the destruction and dissolution of all structures within our universe, all physical laws, the integrity and continuity of the number of dimensions and extent of the space time within our universe, the destruction and dissolution of the fundamental particles and fundamental constants within our universe, and perhaps even the scrambling and randomizing of the relation between cause and effect within our universe: in short the production of a real mess!
Still another example involves the very birth of our universe and perhaps the very birth of every child or baby universe such as may occur according the the theory of the fractal verse of chaotic inflation in which it is held that baby universes are constantly forming at just about every location within our universe and other unverse lineages at a very large rate in terms of numbers per location per unit of microscopic time interval.
It could be said that all of the above examples involve energy state changes, vacuum field energy state changes, and the like, and thus involve energy or are otherwise intimately involved with energy, however, the effects are huge and ultimately infinitely larger in terms of the amount of space time, matter and energy, number of particles and even macroscopic structures, and even in the creation of space time, quantities of matter and energy, and numbers of particles, and even numbers of spacetime dimensions especially parrallel space time dimensions, than the amount of energy or other dynamic agent that caused, causes, or that could cause the respective phase changes in the first place.
It becomes a question as to whether, in any or all of the above types of phase changes, whether or not such phase changes are best described in terms of casual energy in the E = M(C EXP 2) type or even in the virtual zeropoint fluctuations of the real mattergy types enbodied in the relation E = M(C EXP 2), or whether such physical powers to produce such effects are best described in terms of some other physical agency that is best described in terms other than energy, mattergy, or even other than space, time, or spacetime. Perhaps a future formulation of a grand overarching mathematical theoretical framework and lexocography of such causitive powers could lead to a more effective study of such hidden or latent powers or agencies which in turn might lead our civilization and/or any ETI civilization(s) to powers here-to-for unheard of, in short powers to change the universe, create fundamental realms and other universes, etc.: in short powers to change physical reality defined under the umbrella E = M(C EXP 2) in fundamental ways.
I am not sure how such a truely overarching frame work could be applied technologically not to mention if it could be applied safely while respecting the integrity of the natural order of our universe and even that of the entire cosmos, especially the physical comos. But one thing is for certain, we have made some good progress in our understanding of the strong and weak nuclear forces, but in a sense, we barely understand such forces and so we need to be careful with our conduct of nuclear experiments expecially for war like purposes, for the equilibrium of our universe just might be at risk. Our knowledge of nuclear physics might just enable us to unlock hidden powers, ironically, perhaps much more powerful than Fermi-Dirac particle pair production and annihilation or matter/antimatter production and annihilation reactions, so we had better be careful. Even our understanding of nuclear reactions in the form of ordinary nuclear fission and fusion has given us the power to perhaps destroy our species and contaminate the globe with lethal levels of radioactive fallout for all of the other mammalian species on Earth for periods of thousands of years. However, such ordinary nuclear reactions may unlock the secret to our journey to the stars, even in the beginning of this 3rd millenium BC in such technologies as effecient nuclear fission and/or nuclear fusion powered electric drives, improved interstellar ramjets, fusion pellot runway designs, nuclear powered laser and maser beamed energy; sails, photoelectric powered electric propulsion systems, photo-thermal-electric powered electric propulsion systems, photo-thermal-turbo-electric electric propulsion systems, and the like, some of which might enable us to reach high enough gamma factors to allow us to leave the Milky Way Galaxy. The nuclear genie is permanently unlocked and out of its bottle, let us put it to use for peaceful purposes including interstellar manned space travel.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Great Jim, George, out to dip our toes in several new ponds.
Thanks for the interesting reply and personal insight. I like big myself, probably because I’m of average height and weight. The grass is greener syndrome.
Economics in space flight is the way to go. If we figure out how to, more economically go out and about, the financial returns from mining the asteroids, building solar power generating systems around Venus, cheaper launching systems, etc. would pay for our excursions so there would always be new moneys available for even bigger projects.
Such cost effective systems would change everything greatly in our space exploits, where we go, when we get there, and how long we could efficiently stay there, are all functions of economics– in accord with your comments Jim.
your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest:
A rather strange idea occurred to me as I was out driving at around 1:00 AM this morning. I sometimes go out for a drive in the early morning to clear my head and see if my sometimes perhaps overactive imagination can generate any thoughts that might involve technologies remotely possible in the distant future just to see what the existential limits of human technologies might be for philosophical reasons and reasons of concern for the continued existence of humanity as a procreating species for cosmic epochs to come.
The first version of this rather strange idea involves a notion that I have briefly mentioned in a previous posting and involves the idea of holding up a huge mass from gravitational collapse into a blackhole state via the use of negative mass, negative energy, or imaginary mass, and/or imaginary energy in the complex number or imaginary number sense.
The idea essentially involves a layered arragment of normal density matter and negative mass or imaginary mass in an alternating pattern wherein the gravitational collapse and the formation of an event horizon would be avoided for very, very large mattergy aggregations in inertial baryonic matter forms.
Basically, in the extreme case as a cosmic engineering construction project, a mass of baryonic matter held up against collapse by such a layered arrangement might have the density of anywhere from that of normal atomic and molecular matter on Earth at STP to that of solid dense forms of nuetronium with the volume of the observable universe, or with the volume of any portion of the universe of arbitrary multiple of the volume of the observable universe where this multiple is greater than unity, up to and including arbitary cardinalities of infinity as limiting examples.
The amount of energy contained within a portion of the universe with the radius of the observable universe wherein the baryonic matter is water would be 10 EXP 31 times greater than the energy contained within the observable universe as computed roughly in the form; E tot = [1/(10 EXP – 31)](omega) (V) where omega is the critical density of the mass of the universe or bounding condition between an open and closed universe, 10 EXP -31 is the number of grams per cubic centimeter in omega, and V is the spatial volume of the portion of the universe considered.
For the second version of the basic idea, a layered arrangment of nuetron dense material is considered wherein, E tot = [1/(10 EXP – 31)](10 EXP 15)(omega)(V) where 10 EXP 15 is the approximate relative specific gravity of solid nuetron with respect to water.
For the third version of the basic idea, a layered arrangmemt is considered utilizing a density of matter just below, by about 33 percent, the threshold of that density of the mass of the Earth contained in about 2/3 of a cubic centimeter, this threshold being the limiting value for the formation of an Earth massed blackhole, E tot = [1/(10 EXP -31)](2.1 x 10 EXP 27)(omega)(V) yeilds mattergy density = (2.1 x 10 EXP 58) times omega or 2.1 x 10 EXP 27 grams per cubic centimeter.
Perhaps such vast collections of matter can be collected in cosmic time intervals and at least partially converted to negative or imaginary mass wherein a huge mattergy depo could be built up for further use as a mattergy strorage depo for very cosmically long term use by future human and ETI civilizations. The precursor mattergy might be collected from the interstellar medium, other universes including natural and perhaps manmade Big Bangs, higher dimensional space, parallel universes including parallel ordinay 4-D Einstienian spacetimes and paralell higher dimensional space times. Alternatively, perhaps the mattergy can be drawn from depolarization of the various zero point vacuum energy fields. Note that the latent energy density of the zero point energy fields may be 120 orders of magnitude greater than that of the real mattergy density within our universe at a value of about 10 EXP 75 metric tons per 3-D spatial volume equal to roughly that of the observable universe. This is equivalent to roughly 10 EXP 195 metric tons per volume in 3-D space equal to that of the spatial volume of the observable universe or the mass of about 10 EXP 172 solar masses. This is an far fetched but potentially amazing way to store mattergy for very cosmically remote future use by humanity and ETI civilizations.
Even denser configurations of mattergy are contemplated with this as yet fanciful technology. One reason why such super large and dense volumes of mattergy might be aggregated if only on a much more limited scale than that of the extreme examples given above is that negative or imaginary mass has been suggested as a lining to hold open the mouths of macroscopic wormholes against collapse in order to form permanent traversable wormholes. The inward pressure exerted by a 6 foot wide inner diameter wormhole has been calculated to be on the rough order of 10 EXP 37 tons per square centimeter. This is the equivalent of the force exerted on the mass of about 1/10 of the entire star population within the Milky Way Galaxy (or about 10 billlion stars with the mass of the Sun) on a one square centimeter area surface element of a mythical astronomical body with a surface gravity equal to that of Earth. So perhaps enough layers of such exotic matter wherein each layer would be of suitable thickness would or could do the job.
Why think in terms of such large scale contraptions? My only answer is that humans are ultimately driven to infinite realities. Whether that infinity is the infinite reality of GOD, the universe, the entire cosmos physical and/or spiritual, the potentially unbounded potential for the growth of the human population as we colonize space and the infinite variety of human females with pretty faces, bright minds, and beautiful personalities to behold, the inner beauty and mysterious sublime depths of the human psyche and the spiritual and immortal souls that married spouses behold in one another, the couragous act of a wounded dying soldier shielding his or her comrades from small arms fire by his or her own dying body, the relentless struggle of a chronically ill person to find meaning in the cross of his or her illness, or what ever, we are all driven to behold and become a part of something much larger than ourselves. Maslow got this down correctly when he formulated his famous hierarchy of the human needs pyramid. In the end, we as human beings are religious beings, whether we consciously recognize any faith based system or not, and are open to and longing for the infinite. Ultimately, we can only be satisfied in the infinite, in GOD, and in contemplation of his infinitely vaste creation. We seek the infinite within our selves as expressed in our theoretically unlimited potential for spiritual growth in the life of grace and even in our theoretically unbounded intellects given all eternity to learn and explore. As a person who believes that all human beings are of fundamentally equal moral dignity and equality before our Creator, it is disheartening and sad that even with all our modern technology, scientific prowess, and most importantly our ability to love, that the threat of the mythical battle or Armegeddon still overshadows us. The reader may well by now get what I am about to say and that is let us work for a civilization of love and respect for all human and ETI lifeforms at all stages of development and explore the vaste reaches of the cosmos. To this I say once again in the spirit of Tau Zero, “To The Stars”.
That’s all for now.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Massive Cloud to Strike Milky Way in only 40 million years. Star busts supernovae, etc. and whatever else, who knows. Guess we better get busy, only have 40 Mil. yrs. to prepare.
news.nationalgeographic.com/news
all for now, your friend forrest
Hi Forrest and George;
Forrest, sounds like we are in for some real galactic fireworrks. At the very least, lots of new born stars to eventually visit. At worst, massive numbers of blue supergiant stars to go supernova and contaminate the galaxy with potentiallly lethal levels of gamma ray flux. A typical supernova could be lethal to human population even at a distance of 30 lightyears, a high end range supernova 300 lightyears, a gamma ray burst 7,500 lightyears on the side of the planet facing the burst, not to mention destruction of planetary atmospheric chemistry responsible for maintaining the ozone layer.
Another concept occurred to me regarding manned interstellar transport which involves the bazaar concept of a zero point energy virtual particle sail. The idea involves some how producing a surface membrane or rigid wide area structure that would interact directly with the full brunt of the latent energy of the zero point fields as if the zero point field equalibrium between negative energy virtual particle fluctuations and positive energy virtual particle fluctuations was depolarized thus yielding astounding propulsive energies. The latent zero point energy density is as much as 120 orders of magnitude greater than the energy density of the real mattergy within the universe. A cubic meter of space would thus have about 10 EXP 40 times the energy of the entire real mattergy content within the observable universe.
Now we as space enthusiasts have come uo with possible schemes for harnessing this tremendous latent zero point energy as it exists in nature. However, even more astounding would be the possibility of controlling the rate of zero point virtual particle pair productions to the extent that the latent zero point energy fields could be made many orders of magnitude greater than that of the 120 orders of magnitude if not an infinite number of orders of magnitude greater and subsequently depolarizing the fields partially or fully for the purposes of providing zero point energy sails, or in general, zero point energy extraction mechanisms to power any of the following space propulsion systems: reactionary propulsion systems such as ion, electron, photon, tachyon (if they exist) rockets, interstellar ramjets, beamed electromagnetic and/or kinetic energy powered systems; field effect propulsion systems such as magnetic sail, magnetic and/or electric field based propulsion systems; space and/or time distortion systems such as electrogravatic, gravatic, antigravatic propulsions systems, and warp drives; and spacetime short cut systems such as wormholes, spacetime warp teleportation, electromagnetic teleportation, quantum teleportation, macroscopic wave function manipulation induced macroscopic tunneling, and multiple space time connectivity based transport to very remote cosmic locations in space and/or time, higher dimensional space and/or time, higher dimensional parallel spacetime, parallel dimensional space time, other universes, paralell universes and the like.
That’s all for now.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
jim lol yeah alot of new stars to visit lol that should only take afew billion years or so!!! no problem.but much more important. did everyone see that picture on the news yesterday of a creature walking on mars?! now we will be forced to go! know what i think? that somebody took a picture of bigfoot from a movie and superimposed it on a photograph of mars! be suprised if we now won’t be treated to a real 3 ring circus!lol guess i’m not in my most serious mood this morning.sorry if i wasted anybodies time with my weird jokes.all the best to all your friend george ps no kidding that picture of the “creature” did look awfully familiar!? :) g
Hi George and Forrest and other Folks;
George;
That photo is really amazing, even in an erie sense. We really must go to Mars!
It occurred to me to mention a theory I had on cosmology wherein the physical cosmos might indeed have been created by an Almighty God, whose existence is completely independent of the created cosmos. This concept, although just a thought experiment without the intention of converting anyone or promoting any faith-based agenda, is based on the Schoolastic Principle of First Principles or created essenses with are not dependent on any other creature or agency for their existence but which depend entirely on GOD’s will and maintenance of them in existence by his sustaining might.
It has been stated that the created universe may have developed out of nothing in a simmilar manner that virtual particles come into and out of being based on the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle of the uncertainty in the quantities position and momentum, and energy and time, in a given region of microscopic space.
Perhaps all of the visible and/or mattergy, spacetime, vacuum fields, and the probabalistic fields of nothing that the universe alledgedly developed from are simply accidental properties that subsist in a finer level or more primitive level of physical reality that is not directly observable by either human or ETI lifeforms. It may be the case that this finer level subsists in an even finer level of physical or created reality which subsists in an even finer level on ward in perhaps an infinite regress until the ultimate physical level of reality has been reached which is the prime matter maintained in existence by the almighty GOD and directly created by GOD Ex nihilo.
Perhaps the agency of virtual fluctuations that gave birth to the universe was simply the activity of the accidental properties of a finer level of being be this level of being a prime matter or simply a finer level of acccidental properties that exist in a finer level and so on. Alternatively, the accidental properties of mattergy, spacetime, vaccuum energy states etc., have the self promotional power to produce more of themselves where there is little or no prior accidental material as such in existence and so produce or reproduce themselves by bootstrapping themselves into existence.
Now, we in the Western Tradition have always, from Ancient Greek philosophers onward to the present western Faithbased cultural ideals, championed the idea that the ultimate truth and therefor the ultimate principles are of utmost and supreme importance and some how the most real. I would like to suggest a different point of view that the potential ability of accidental properties to boot strap themselves into existence by uncertaintly relations where there may well be no hidden variables whatsoever, may in a certain sense transcend the sustaining influence of a GOD on prime matter in which the accidents subsist at one level or another. Such accidental properties would be more removed from direct creation by their Creator and thus have a certain transcendance over this sustainance, even though these accidents may ultimately subsist in the prime matters sustained directly by GOD.
Given that the Big Bang can be explained by the uncertainty-principle-based zero point, vaccuum state, virtual-particle-production-like behavior in such a manner that more matter and energy and spacetime is created from little or no mattery and/or spacetime, there is no reason to assume that the Big Bang was not simply an ordinay natural obiquitously occurring process that is being repeated in various forms all of the time in one or perhaps an infinite number of parent-child universe lineages or fractal-verses as in the theory of Chaotic Inflation or multiverse theories. I have known many engineers raised on a Western Platonic Cause and Effect based mindset that assume matter and energy can nether be created or destroyed, but the consensus among Big Bang theorists is that the universes’ matter and energy content and even the erroneously viewed eternal dimensions of space and time simply arose as a chance tiny fluctuation based on the real objective uncertaintly of the uncertaintly principle by purely natural existential laws without any act of Divine providence accept that Divine act of maintaining the ultimate prime matter in which the universe as an accident subsists and in which most proabably a whole host of other arbitrary realities subsist. That fact that virtual particles come into and out of existence literally all of the time is a well established notion in fundamental theoretical and applied theoretical physics and the existence of zero point electromagnetic fluctuations as such has been basically proven by experiments such as the Casimar Experiment to well within the bounds of experimental error in a now easily repeatable manner.
The point is that accidental properties are important and have their particular own virtues over that of any existent prime matters. In fact, the existence of human free will in this life probably does not even involve the necessity of an explainative ultimate transcendent first principle such as a purely spiritual isolated completely independant of matter aspect of the human soul, but may actually depend in this life intrinsically on the reality of acausal zero point vacuum fluctuations and related processes within the human brain. Such process as having an ontology based on accidental reality far removed from any prime matters such as a spiritual, directly created, naturally immortal per addens and perse human soul would also have the added transcendance of being further removed from the sustaining power and dependancy from GOD which is what free will is all about, i.e., the ability to choose or not to choose GOD’s will for us in this life. GOD gave all of us the ability to operate independently of GOD so that we would not be blind robots. I believe this freedom lies in part in our accidental nature which when combined with the beauty of the human physical body, any energy bodies, and the spiritual, directly created, naturally immortal per addens and perse human soul, results in the wonderful beings we call humans. The same holds I believe for ETI lifeforms.
All of the above being said, perhaps points to our ability as humans to oneday create whole universes, fractal verses, and GOD knows what. We may be able to use accidental laws or existential principles to change fundamental laws of physics or to create new laws of physics. The creation of these new realms by artificially controlled natural processes might even influence or lead GOD to create new spiritual human and or ETI combinations of naturally created physical bodies, any naturally created energy bodies, and the spiritual, directly created, naturally immortal per addens and perse human souls and ETI souls thus resulting in the wonderful beings we call humans and also more ETIs. Thus our profound ability to set up physical realities leads to or is causative for even spiritual and immortal human and ETI souls in comming into being by creating conditions GOD deams requisite for the creation of Human and bodily ETI spiritual lifeforms.
It is said that our universe will probably, given enough time undergo, other random phase changes by chance of probabalistic outcome in terms of the laws of physics or constants of nature that arise as to their very specific properties, perhaps we human can be causatve agents in modifying such uncertaintly principle based random vacuum state fluctuations especially if we happen to discover some unforseen types of hidden quantum-mechanical variables or at least a mathematically/existentially deeper structure to known quantum mechanical variables whether or not hidden variables exist as accidents.
At the very least, in the near term, lets plan to go to Mars to see what the heck is going on there, and to check out that allegded huge face like rock structure, and then on “To The Stars”.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
jim yes indeed we should go to mars and on to the stars i agree ! and…as to who or what created us,lol,for that matter might we not be just some sub routine of a complex holodeck program! in that case “god” may be a star ship engineer for all we know! wow! thank you your friend george ps thought provoking isn’t it?
Hi George;
A buddy of mine likens our creation to a computer program wherein the program is entirely written and directed by the creator. The program is accordingly precisely determined by the creator as is logical elements are written by the creator. I think your holodeck program idea is very intreguing. Keep up the cool visionary thinking.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi George;
Regarding the holodeck concept, it occured to me that perhaps all of creation, the entire cosmos, or whatever, might simply subsist in pure abstract mathematical entities in the Platonic eternal forms sense of ancient Greek writters. Perhaps pure mathematical entities somehow are the prime matters of creation or underwrite the existence of creation.
According to your holodeck theory, creation might simply be some sort of computer like program or software written by a creator wherein the creatures are assembled out of pure mathematical logical elements which may or may not be irreducable. These mathematical entities may or may not have some sort of fleshed out incarnation or accidents to produce the real physical world and perhaps the spiritual cosmos as well.
An example of a logical operator defining any directly created, spiritual and naturally immortal human soul is the operator, the soul exists or the soul does not exist. The same logical operational test can be applied to any existent pure spirits called angles. A simillar logical operator can be applied to mutually inconsistent quantum mechanical states. Even in quantum mechanical systems that exist in an admixture of states such as involving qubits in quantum computers wherein such states may have quantum characteristics or states defined by yes, no, both yes and no, both yes and no and yes, and the list goes on, a binary conbination of mutually inconsistent logical states in the domain of symbolic logic may actually exist in certain quantum states involving admixtures and thus these quantum states are defined by logical operators.
In short every thing may be defined by logical operators even perhaps the Roman Catholic Trinitarian GOD as 3 persons in one GOD; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The mutual distinctions that constitute each of these Three Persons can be listed in set theory and are thus definable at some level by mathematically logical operations and mathematical set theory based elements. There is the relation between the Father and the Son, the relation between the Father and the Son and The Holy Spirit, the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the Son, the relation between the Holy Spirit and the Father thus resulting in Four Relations. One could even say that there is the relation between the Father and the Father, the relation between the Son and the Son, and the relation between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit but perhaps these relations are ontologically degenerate, or perhaps not.
Regardless, it is not my intent to convert anybody here or promote any form of faith based doctrine, but rather the philosophical intent is simply to define the ubiquitous nature of mathematical and logical elements and operators and how at some level or another, every thing and every one may be defined atleast at some level by such and dependent on such.
George, it is indeed possible that our universe including ourselves is a program being run on an alien computer. Perhaps this alien and its computer is a program being run by yet another alien and its computer and perhaps so on in an infinite or unlimited series of levels. This is a very intriquing concept to me given that yes, no boolean operators seem to define every state within our universe including states of quantum admixtures of states such as involving qubits of quantum computers both naturally occuring and man-made.
Once again, keep up the cool visionary thoughts George.
Anyone else, please feel free to jump in. Goerge, Forrest, and I would love to have your input.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hey Jim, George,
We all here have the desire and plan to go to Mars. We’re just waiting for the money to fund it. We may have been able to go there and back 5 times for the money we’ve spent on Iraq. Or maybe solar generating satellites around Venus that would have a payback system to maybe pay for itself or better.
If we have a few coins maybe we can try this.
Virgin Galactic debuted a model of a ship planned to carry commercial passengers on a suborbital joyride within a few years.
I guess that would be cool. Maybe only 250 G’s for a joy ride– I’m up for that but 250 is a lot of coin.
all for know, your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
Forrest, If I can scrap up enough coins, I definately need to try the Virgin Galactic Ride. Man, for all that money we spent on Iraq, we could have done some great precursor studies on the future development of the hardware that could make 0.1 C to 0.15 C space arks to our local stellar niegboors a reality such as very efficeint nuclear fission powered electrical propulsion and nuclear fusion powered electrical propulsion systems.
By the way, I was just thinking on the topic of ultimate realities as championed by Western theologians and philosphers and the concepts of the ontological transcendant realities came up in term of the ultimate, infinite, perfect, unboundable good, the ultimate truth, wisdom, perfect and infinite charity in the ultimate love sense, and the usual lexocographical games I play in my mind lead me to consider transcendent realities such as hyper-good, trans-good, super-good, hyper-truth, trans-truth, super-truth, hyper-wisdom, trans-wisdom, super-wisdom, hyper-charity, trans-charity, super-charity and the like as possible attributes for an Almighty GOD. Accordingly, these preficed lexocographical terms would be beyond the non preficed versions without detracting from the unique significance of any realities defined by the non-preficed terms. As some of the readership may be aware, Catholic theologians generally hold that GOD’s attributes or characteristics are at one with GODs nature and GOD’s essense is at one with GODs existence. Therefor GOD is goodness, truth, wisdom, charity and the like. Presumably if such transcendent realities existed, they could exist with out departing from the unique significance of the non trancendent realities such as ultimate; good, truth, wisdom, charity and the like as ultimate atributes of GOD, while adding to the set of absolutely undefinable and unimaginable quantities of attributes or aspects of GOD, only a relatively few of which are intellegable to us on Earth because of our limited language and lexocographical developments.
I guess the point I really want to make envolves the question as to what do the ETI think about the notion of GOD, presuming that ETI exist. I would love to find out. What other abstracted notions do they have that are of a simmilar moral character as goodness, truth, wisdom, charity and the like but which humanity has yet to positively abstractly label and hueristically contemplate. I would like to know what sort of emotions do ETI have, what sort of personality profiles do they possess and how do their personality trait spectrums compare on average to those of humans, how do they reproduce, do they value sexuality including with all of its emphasis in modern pop-culture and the modern existential psychologicalistic view of the great dignity of sexuality that is adhered to even in the formation and instruction of Clergyman and religious of all of the mainstream denominations of Christianity be they Roman Catholic, Episciple, Evangelical, Fundamentalists, etc, as well as those of the Jewish Faith, Islam etc, do they play sports, do they have a strong sense of consumerism and attachment to economic wealth or affluence, do they have a governmental structure simmilar to democratic free market capitalist values, and the list goes on and on.
On a different note, I read a very interesting article in the latest issue of Popular Science about a new technology developed at MIT called Witricity or Wireless electricity wherein magnetic energy is generated at Witricity outlets and wherein the transmitted magnetic fields frequency is such that the magnetic energy fluctuation frequencies couple to that of conducting coil-like resonators with the same resonate frequency by magnetic induction. The frequency used in the MIT experiments was 10 megaherts and apparently the magnetic energy does no harm to organic living tissues or systems and so appears completely safe. Apparently, the electrodynamic coupling of the electrodynamic energy is more of a magnetic coupling as opposed to an electromagnetic coupling because at the power levels needed to run household appliances, microwave energy or electromagnetic energy at least at the frequency of two orders of magnitude greater or about 1 GigaHtz could burn human tissue at the power levels considered for the magnetic energy outlets.
The magnetic energy sufficient to light to full capacity a 60 Watt light bulb attached to an electrical current generating resonating magnetic induction coil occured for a distance of about 7 feet from the magnetic field generator and the light bulb and resonating reception coil. I hear that the effeciency of this system is a better part of unity and researchers aim to scale up the efficiency and distance over which the magnetic energy can be extracted. Supposedly, Nikoli Tesla came up with this concept as a potential means to transmit electrodynamic energy without wires in the form of local transmission utility grids but his plans never got off the ground. He died a lone pulpor without having this dream realized. In short, this article is really cool.
Thus, it occurred to me that a planetary solar system based ultralow frequency magnetic field generators system might be useful for transmitting magnetic energy to manned interstellar spacecraft. Since the above technology is not dependent on line of sight orientation, perhaps such a system could help solve the aiming problem associated with beamed directional electromagnetic energy propulsion systems for manned relativistic interstellar space craft. The magnetic energy generators could be powered by sun light via vast space based photovoltaic, thermoelectric, and/or turboelectric systems.
The system might be scaled up in size to interstellar distances to power intergalactic manned space craft perhaps to increadibly high gamma factors relatively quickly. Such space craft could be driven by electrodynamic propulsion systems such as; ion, electron, or photon rockets, magnetoplasmahydrodynamic, electroplasmahydrodynamic, and/or electromagetoplasmahydrodynamic drive systems and the like.
Forrest;
One thing that struck me in particular about such a technology is that your concept of the magnetic field laser might be excellent for long distance effecient beaming of magnetic field energy for such a system. But then again, if the magnetic energy can be beamed in a coherent and tightly enough bound beam, why not just use your magnetic field laser concept as either an attractive or repulsive tractor beam to propell interplanetary and interstellar manned space craft.
That’s all for now.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Jim, George,
Was reading the latest– we can get a coach seat for a discount price of only 200G’s — first class 250.
Nice question. It would work more like a beta-ray, an electron beam, or like lightening only not nearly as strong with a small incidental electron flow/ current and it may not be completely invisible within our atmosphere. It could only magnetize and would have only a minimum of attraction something like induction. It conceivably could be used as a tractor beam at very close range but it would probably magnetize all the electronics on a ship unless memory systems were non-magnetic. It might be difficult to protect against its magnetizing influence as far as magnetic memory is concerned ( 3/4 inch, or thicker, iron shielding might work for a while). For long distances, maybe 250 miles on earth or possibly hundreds of thousands of miles in space, still not as far as radio waves and at the maximum range maybe no more powerful. It would cost a lot to build, maybe something like the cost of a particle accelerator. I presently cannot conceive of a smaller version of it because of the very small angle of deflection that would be needed for its focus. The largest seemingly realistic beam size would be maybe no larger than 1/2 inch, straight and concentrated like a laser — and like a laser there would be some atmospheric absorption but little deflection.
A bigger version might be built in space because there might be risks for ground based devices such as leakage, and you wouldn’t want to try using it around storm clouds. Maybe a robotic space device could convert solar energy (maybe at a distance from the sun similar to Venus’s orbit) into this magnetic beam. But as I said the immediate uses for it — would probably be military.
It conceivably could be used to lower the temperatures needed for nuclear fusion– but at the present time I have no idea how much or how big it would need to be. Of course all of this is concept. I’ve never written it up and only the rudiments are in my theories. If I knew for sure the concept was valid I might consider designing it (having it designed and built).
I have ideas for experiments needed for proof-of-concept that might cost less than 100k and take no more than a year. But — it could be a big time waster also if it doesn’t pan out. But if my over-all theories fly within the next 10 years or so, I might be persuaded to go at least as far as the proof of concept stage, if valid others could do the rest.
your friend forrest
yes forrest,again…lol that big discount on the space flight above certainly looks attractive! hahahaha maybe its time to smash the piggy bank! :) your friend george
Forrest and George;
Thanks for the comments and clarifications about the potential capabilities of the magnetic laser.
The concept of a high energy density meta-material occurred to me wherein the material would be composed of a variety of fissionable isotopes, fusionable isotopes, and a little bit of nanoscale penning trap like mechanisms for containing and actually containing antimatter in the form of neutral antimatter atoms.
The general idea here is to produce a material that can be compressed or otherwise made to undergo nuclear fission wherein the fission will cause the fusionable isotopes to undergo thermonuclear fusion which in turn would release the antimatter and cause the antimatter to interact with the electrons and nucleons comprising the atomic nuclei of the normal matter components of the metamaterial.
Imagine if a judicious choice of fissionable, fusionable, and antimatter species could be chosen in the construction of the metamaterial wherein the fission, fusion, and antimatter fragments could recombine to produce additional fissionable, fusionable, and/or antimatter particles to increase the net amount of energy released by the metamaterial upon reprocessing of the second-staged-produced radionucleids by nuclear and Fermi-Dirac interactions. Perhaps the material can be so designed to produce yet another stage or tertiary stage of nuclear reactions and/or Ferm-Dirac interactions and perhaps a fourth and so on wherein as much as 5% to 20% or more of the original rest mass is converted into energy.
Note that the occurrence of each stage of the nuclear reactions need not occur in separate or unique time intervals but rather there may be overlapping of such time periods and/or simultaneously occurring reactions which are otherwise particular to a given stage.
Now one might argue that the final energy released could be no greater than the difference in nuclear binding energy per unit of rest mass of the materials with the smallest mass specific binding energy as such and the materials with the largest mass specific binding energy as such, for instance, such as the net energy released in going from hydrogen to the most stable isotope of iron (which does not undergo exothermic fusion nor exothermic nuclear fission) by nuclear fusion. However I make the possible counterargument that there are thousands of radionucleids and dozens of radionucleids that can undergo nuclear fission by neutron capture or other particle nucleonic capture. There are literally hundreds of fusionable isotopes that undergo exothermic nuclear fusion by an even greater number of fusion reaction pathways or sequences. For each type of atom, in theory, there can exist a stable form of antimatter atom counterpart. I suspect that there may be some type of nuclear reaction series of sequences by which such efficiencies in converting mass into energy exist wherein only a minuscule percentage of antimatter would be included in terms of overall percentage of the make up of the metamaterial.
Finding the right isotopes and/or combining them in suitably dense arrangements will be tricky if such metamaterials with the requisite mass specific yields is possible. The number of material combinations is huge potentially equivalent in rough order of magnitude range to the number of combinations of a set of numbers wherein the number of elements in this set is a few thousand or equal to the number of isotopes known to exist. When one considers that the relative density of such isotopes and perhaps even the relative positions of such constituent atomic species used in any used crystalline forms of such metamaterials can effect how the material can work, one can see the huge number of combinations required for potential research. In short, there are an ensemble of such combinations. Add to this the number of possible antimatter atoms including the shape of the molecular antimatter nanoscale containment cages and their relative positions etc., and one sees the astoundingly large number of possibilities that must be ruled out in order to prove that the concept cannot work. I suspect that it may be possible to construct numerous types of such energy dense metamaterials but I cannot at this point prove my conjecture.
Such metamaterials would make an ideal fuel for electrodynamic propulsion systems for such as: electron, ion, photon, and perhaps even tachyon rockets; and magneto-plasma-hydrodynamic, electro-plasma-hydrodynamic, and/or electromageto-plasma-hydrodynamic drive systems and the like.
If large masses of such materials are detonated to produce shaped charge detonations wherein the resulting jets have an energy/power flux density 6 orders of magnitude greater than that of spherically symmetric detonations which could in turn have a yield of 1 1/2 orders of magnitude greater than pure fusion fuel, we obtain an energy density 7 1/2 orders of magnitude greater than that of a pure fusion bomb. The temperature of a pure spherically symmetric fusion bomb equates to about a few billion Kelvin or about 10 MeV per nucleon. For a shaped charged metamaterial device as such, the temperature would be equivalent to 10 EXP 17 Kelvins or 1,000 TeV per nucleon or 100 times the energy that the new upgraded LHC at CERN will be capable of.
Imagine producing novel effects with bulk macroscopic quantities of such superhot mattergy such a dense field of real Higgs Bosons or other yet to be discovered exotic particles. Who knows what sort of exotic applications the creation of such bulk mattergy would or could have on manned interstellar or intergalactic propulsion systems. However, there is a danger that such dense bulk matter could produce a runaway uncloaked phase change with disastrous consequences for all life and civilizations in our universe, parallel universes, and other casually connected Big Bangs. In short, great care would have to be used such that runway phases changes would not happen and/or could not happen. Unfortunately, such an ability to produce limited vacuum state phase changes as such that would be designed to die out after ablissimating a planet, a star system, and perhaps whole galaxies would likely be weaponized by human military organizations given our track record of ever mounting sophistication and lethality of our weapons systems. However, the potential huge energy released in such phase changes might be useful for manned interstellar or intergalactic transport, travel into other universes including parallel universes or into other weakly casually connected Big Bangs, higher dimensional space etc.
That’s all for know.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hey Jim, George,
Along the same vein of thought as your comments above, Jim, in my theory conceivably, some day, we might be able to stabilize both a free neutron and a free anti-neutron. Both would be very dangerous particles if they were to get out of containment. Both would be “great” ingredients for a more destructive bomb. As for the stable neutron the only positive use that I can currently think of is that it might enable more stable fusion reactions for power generation—if it didn’t cost too much to manufacture in the first place.
But an antineutron, if stabilized, could be contained much more readily than an anti-proton and ,accordingly, would also need much less power to store it because of its comparative stability – could be a great potential rocket fuel. In this state an antinuetron might also be fused with another anti-neutron to possibly make an anti-deuteron and an electron. Add a positron to the anti-deuteron and we could have stable and storable anti-hydrogen that upon super-cooling could be liquefied.
Now we have, conceivably, a Star-Trek type anti-matter fuel. A little of that could go a loooooooooooooooooooog way. Other than a bomb, what else could be done with this technology if it is possible? Hopefully it would have many positive uses but it seems that it would be too expensive to use for power generation because it probably would be very expensive to manufacture, requiring a lot of energy.
Your friend forrest
Hi Forrest and George;
Thanks for the comments.
I was not sure where to post this message and so I decided the closest match would be here for the subject matter.
The concept involves producing beams of neutralinos and beams of antineutralinos and then beaming these particles to the location of a cosmically ,or at least interstellar space, transiting space craft. The neutralinos and antineutralinos would be beamed at essentially the speed of light in two seperate beams to the location of the space craft wherein they could be cojoined or intermingled to produce quark antiquark pairs which in turn would annihiilate each other in quark anti-quark re-actions to produce energy.
The end results of neutralino antineutralino annihilation are either a pair of neutrinos, two charged leptons, or a quark/antiquark pair, which are the decay products of virtual Z bosons. Z Bosons have a mass of 91.1876±0.0021 GeV/c2 and are the immeadiate interaction products of neutralino antineutralino annihilation. The Z boson is the weak force quanta having no electric charge unlike the W+ an W- bosons which have an electric charge of + and – one fundamental charge unit of electric charge or 1.602176487 × 10 EXP -19 Coulumbs.
Since neutralinos are proposed WIMPS or weakly interacting massive particles, they would react very little with the normal matter or visible matter within the interstellar or intergalactic medium.
In the case where leptons are produced, the lepton and its antimatter counterpart could be directed via magnetic fields and/or electric fields stearing means wherein they would be thrust backward to provide thrust and or made to react to produce decay products such as gamma rays which can yield capturable energy for direct gamma ray photon drive and/or thermal-electrodynamic propulsion systems such as steam driven turboelectric powered electrodynamic drives or photon drives.
In the case where quark anti quark pairs are produced, the gamma rays produced by the Fermi-Dirac annihilation of these particles could be utilized in photon drive or thermal-electrodynamic propulsion systems such as steam driven turbo-electric powered electrodynamic drives or photon drives.
Note that some of the collected energy could be used to power electrodynamic massive particle thrust mechanisms to yield thrust particle gamma factors in the TeV range and perhaps much greater inorder to increase the effective rest mass specific Isp of the repelled particles to values well beyond the value of 30,000,000 possible by photon drive.
Perhaps other WIMPS species could be beamed to the ship for the same general purpose. Either way, care would need to be taken that the WIMP beam would not be disrupted by interstellar or intergalactic Dark Matter. Also, a means for precisely steering the WIMPS into a beam that would need to be precisely directed to the space craft. A means for keeping the craft in the path of the beam would also need to be provided such that the WIMPS would not interact within the crew quaters with disasterous results. Some sort of reaction chamber located safely off line of site with the incident particle beam would need to be provided within the ships makeup.
I hope this post is not too long. This idea occured to me only early this morning. It just sort of popped into my head all at once and so I became very intrigued by it and felt compelled to comment. Note that I plan on establishing a blog of my own in the comming days to address subjects so lengthally addressed where they will be available for comment.
Anyone elso out there who has not posted, please feel free to post today and at any future dates and any any times time of the day here at Tau Zero. Tau Zero is a great resource with very nobel goals. It is one of the premier sites for commenting on the fine interstellar travel related articles provided by the administrator, Paul Gilster.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hey Jim, George,
Beams of all different sorts would seem to have almost endless possibilities for future space travel. Whatever new type of beam we learn how to manufacture it seems likely that it would have propulsion potential. Also your idea of dual beams seems like a way to never run out of fuel.
I’m working on the “Predictions area” of my theory, trying to include all the conceivable implications of the theory that seemingly could be observed and that would contradict the BB theory. When I finish, it seems like I’ll have maybe about 50 total plus 6 that have already been observed. If you both have copies of these predictions you’ll know if/ when they are observed that they were predicted by this theory. Some predictions are over 40 years old now. The total will be only 3 or 4 simple pages long.
all for now, your friend forrest
forrest,good going! nice to hear from you.and yes it seems like any or all forms of energy would be good for propulsion in space . why not if we use a little inginuity!talk to you soon your friend george
Hi Forrest and George;
Beamed energy for space travel is an awesome concept. I am looking forward greatly to see what the LHC comes up with when it goes on line in a few weeks. It seems as if there could be a particle zoo for new particles yet to be discovered, some of which may no doubt be incorporated into particle beams.
Yet more powerful accellerators like one proposed for around the year 2020 will no doubt yield even more novel results.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi Forrest and George;
It occured to me that just as the velocity of light would seem to be a boundary condition seperating sub-luminal velocities from superluminal velocities which in theory would lead to backward time travel, the velocity of super-luminal particles or tachyons might have an upper so called boundary. I have heard of the quotation of 1 billion C as an estimate of the upper limit for Tachyon velocities. What lies beyond this limit? Might the tachyon speed limit be just another boundary which could be overcome into a new higher speed form of travel yet? Would there be yet another boundary, followed by another etc.? What would travel mean for these higher velocities? Would we ba able to travel into other temporal dimensions?
It might be the case that we would enter a state where cause and effect as known in terms of space-time-mattegy would not apply. Perhaps we would somehow travel out of space-time and into a spatial-temporal casual decoupled realm, perhaps an entirely seperate multverse or fractal-verse.
Perhaps there are additional temporal dimensions that could be accessed by such so-called higher velocities. Stephen Hawking has worked with the idea of real and imaginary time and so the concept of other temporal dimensions is not foriegn to science.
Yet another speculation involves the notion of underwritten reality that does not involve cause and effect. What kind of reality this would be is anyones guess. If there is one such reality, perhaps there are infinity many types of reality undewritting that do not involve cause and effect wherein each such additional underwritting is of the same class as cause and effect but yet each different from each other as they are different from cause and effect.
Perhaps there are higher more sublime existence and being underwrittings that are much more sublime then cause and effect or transcendent of cause and effect but which do not envolve cause and effect.
I was not sure if this philosophical speculation was appropriate here, but since it touches on the concept of ultimate reality, which all of us space-heads attain to, I thought that I would bring the concept up.
That’s all for now.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi Jim, George,
The theoretical possibility of tachyons is certainly interesting. There is however no evidence, to my knowledge, of their existence. The only indicator of their possibility are supposedly some solutions to Einsteins General Relativity.These theoretical entities do invite the idea in Sci-fi of time travel. It would be nice.
your friend forrest
forrest,ok now i’ll say my piece on the subject. if dr einstein thinks or allows for tachyons,that’s good enough for me! also…i am not primarily interested in time travel,but…more in something akin to a tachyon drive that would allow ftl travel in space! that i’d love to see! and…jim… yes sir there may indeed be NO upper speed limit,sounds plausable to me. i think now would be a good time to mention a book i just saw an ad for in the latesr scientific american! lol have to run downstairs and grab the magazine first! ok got it! ‘physics of the impossible” by michio kaku.the premise? just because something is impossible today doesn’t mean it will be impossible in the future.” anybody who is a fan of the series universe has undoubtedly seen dr kaku speak many times during its episodes. seriously thinking of getting a copy of this new book for myself too guys! one more quote that fits right in here perfectly too,was a part of the ad for above mentioned book, “if at first an idea does not sound absurd,then there is no hope for it” albert einstein. well everybody that’s it for now. be glad to hear any or all comments from anyone here. ps has anybody read this book and if so what do you think of it? :) your friend george
Hi George and Forrest;
Thanks for the comments. Its great to be back here a PPR OFT II.
Tachyons rockets and other forms of tachyon drive would be really outstanding.
By the way, my interest in physics and interstellar travel came on strong when I was in high school in 10th grade. While in highschool, I befriended a nice science teacher, his training was I believe in biology, who used to follow interstellar travel concepts that existed back then like interstellar ramjets etc.
The science teacher once mentioned a concept which was proposed supposedly by some theoretical physicists of what was to the effect referred to as negtive drive.
The idea for negative drive was accordingly a fanciful form of propulsion wherein the spae craft would start out with a lower value of accelleration whereupon it would accellerate at an increasing rate as it left its origin, potentially accellerating indefinately with an ever increasing rate of accelleration.
The concept reminds me of a positve value of the absolute value for what is called jerk in mechanical enginering disciplines as it applies to the sudden increase in acceleration that can occur in elastic collisions where an object experiences very liitlle excelleration on collisional contact during its first nanoseconds of contact but whereupon the accelleration rate will climb dramatically as the two colliding bodies interact as the collision process unfolds.
Basically the concept involves a non zero value of the third derivative of the position of an object with respect to time, the second derivative of the velocity vector with respect to time, or the first derivative of the acceleration vector with respect to time or simply;
d exp 3 X(x,y,z)/dt exp 3, d exp 2 v(x,y,z)/dt exp 2, da(x,y,z)/dt respectively.
One can formulate mathematically even higher extremes of transport phenomena values related to acceleration such as non zero values of in the rate of change of jerk such as dj(x,y,z)/dt not equal to zero.
Infact would could imagine non zero values of d exp 2 j(x,y,z)/dt exp 2 all the way up to d exp infinity j(x,y,z)/dt exp infinity.
One can imagine dX(x1,x2,x3,…)dt, dv(x1, x2, x3,…)/dt, da(x1, x2,x3,…)/dt, dj(x1,x2,x3,…)/dt and d exp 2 j(x1,,x2,x3,…)/dt exp 2 all the way up to d exp infinity j(x1,x2,x3,…)/dt exp infinity. The indefinateness in the series of dimensions xi simply denotes that the accellerations can happen in higher dimensional space of arbitrary numbers of dimensions as a mathematical construction in symbolic lexocography. If higher dimensional space or space time exist, there is no reason why the formulas for accelleration cannot be applied to these higher dimensions provided they are extended.
One can modify the above formulas with special relativistic analogues and to the extent that they apply in higher dimensional space, one might use special relativistic formulas or similar formulas to describe or augment the derivational values defined above.
Negative drive is so awesome, that if it is possible, it might even be a dream come true for any ETI.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
jim maybe so,maybe so ! wish we knew what those”pesky” eti’s where up to! lol your friend george :)
Hey guys,
If faster than c is possible, without undue danger, which in my theory it is — then someday it seems likely to me we’ll tool out and about Star Trek style. Something we all would hope for.
your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
I had some somewhat poetic and philosophical musings on the ubiquitous nature of nuclear fusion and nuclear fission and on matter antimatter duality.
We, as the civilization of humanity, are poised to embark on our jouney outward to the stars. I have a deep faith that such will occur.
We have learned to harness the cosmic energy source of the stars and the energy source that helps all terrestrial planets capable of supporting life stay temperate over several billion years. This is the energy of nuclear fusion and nuclear fission. It seems to me that these forms of energy based on the strong nuclear force will power human star flight eternally into the future. Assuming an infinite size to our universe and perhaps to all other universes like ours, both within the fractalverse of chaotic inflation and in terms of any parallel histories of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum theory, nuclear fusion fuel is cosmically ubiquitous.
It has been reported that the U.S. Air Force is now working to develope antimatter based technology. I believe the cosmically ubiquitous matter/ antimatter duality will be harnessed for human star flight eternally into the future. Even supersymmetric particles in theory come in matter and in antimatter versions.
Perhaps, the discovery of super-symmetric mattergy will be yet a third way of cosmic signficance to power human star flight eternally into the future.
Perhaps, experiments at the LHC at CERN and at the RHIC and its future upgrade within the U.S. will show that there are additional nuclear forces. It would be awesome to find a thrid nuclear force that was stronger than the currently known strong nuclear force. Just imagine how such a force could be applied to power interstellar and intergalactic human manned space craft.
Thanks;
Jim
forrest,yes i surely DO hope to be out and about star trek style!! jim,it sure would be great to develop matter/ant-matter technology! and YES i do have great hopes for the LHC!!! as i suspect do we all. thank you both very much your friend george
OK my friends,
Just like you both, I eat up whatever new hints of new science or technology is on the horizon. I’m especially looking forward to the James Webb telescope hopefully going up in 2013. I predict that it will be viewing newly discovered galaxies as far as its capabilities can see, then to watch BB theoriest try to squirm out of it by continuously advancing the age of the universe using dark energy or similar fantacies. They are currently expecting to see the “dark ages of the universe”, my advice, don’t hold your breath.
If my book is out on the shelves when this happens (as I believe it will be) everyone could see the related predictions coming true along with its related equations. Then they will have an alternative theory to investigate, on the QT to start with of course. These are my hopes. I dislike illogical theories– most theories today fall into that category, I believe. Any new logical theories is what I hope for, not just mine.
your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
Thanks for the above comments.
Suppose that somehow locked within the physical quantitative dimensions of mass, energy, electric charge, quantum spin number, strangeness, charmedness, and so on, there exist dimensions or a realm which could some how be accessed or traveled into (to use the metaphorical notion of travel in space and/or time, along with space and/or time, or through space and/or time).
The idea here is that we might either actually travel into such realms in either a spatially and/or temporally extended translational sense as we do in ordinary 4-D Einsteinian spacetime, travel into such realms in a spatially and/or temporally extended non-translational sense, travel into the realms in the sense of the meaning of travel that is of the same class as spatial and/or temporal travel but not the same as spatial and/or temporal travel, or to simply dwell in or be contained by such a realm but in a non-spatially and/or non temporally describable sense.
Just as us GOD-heads who adhere to Scholastism, when we say the soul is united to the body, yet we do not say where the soul is located because the soul is a non extended, non-spatial, simple reality, and therefore has to be united at some primal physical level of the human body that is of a more fundamental level than say levels defined by spatial-temporal extendedness; perhaps there is a primal level of physical material that we can travel into that is not spatially and/or temporally extended. Perhaps a Scholastic interpretation of the human soul’s union with the human body entails the existence of such primal non-spatially and/or non-temporally definable primal levels of physical material.
One aspect of this idea is traveleing into the dimension of mass, the dimension of energy, the dimension of electric charge, the dimension of strangeness, the dimension of charmedness, the dimension of quantum spin number and the like but not in terms of spatial or temporal movement.
This is a rather bazaar idea, but it intrigued me so much as I was out driving that I just had to hit the keyboard and post the above comments when I arrived home. I will have more to say regarding this concept on this thread tomorrow. Imagine developing technological machines to enable to travel into such realms.
Thanks;
Jim
Hi Folks;
Suppose that any of these non spatial or non temporal dimensions mentioned in my posting directly above had a means to travel into or a means to dwell within in an existential or ontological sense that is not even definable using the word travel nor definable in the spatially extended sense of being located within. These realms would somehow be dwelt within or among in terms of an ontological enterior much as one would use the phrase borrowed from spiritual psychology that “The human heart is that innermost aspect of our being where we ultimately choose to follow or reject GOD”. I am not trying to convert anyone here but am only using a philosophical notion as an analogy to get my point accross.
Perhaps any of the latter reffered to realms would have a sub-composition which could be dwelt within or entered into and so on all the way down to the ultimate irreducable first created principles.
One might ask why I bring such far-out concepts up that seem to have very little to do with interstellar space travel here at Tau Zero. My reply is that when we are considering the so-called final frontier of space travel, we might be mindful that there might be other far more sublime frontiers to explore and conquer for peaceful purposes assumming that the human race will last for an eternity and grow and evolve for all eternity both in terms of the number of individuals that are created and in terms of the evolution and development of our minds, wills, hearts, memories, psyches in the psychodynamic personality theory sense, souls, spirits: even these components of you and I and everyone else currently alive as we ponder interstellar travel here at Tau Zero, and after the sun set of our life here on Earth, what ever good awaits us on the other side. But we have to start somewhere, and so I say as a tribute to all of us frontiers men and women here at Tau Sero and in the spirit of Tau Zero, Onward Ho! “To The Stars”.
Thanks;
Jim
Jim, George
Your comment above Jim, reminds me a little of the 1966 Sci-fi flick Fantastic Voyage with Raquel Welch. A group of scientists were reduced down to the size of nano-bots and injected into a human body. The special effects were pretty wild then but pretty tame compared to today’s special effects. As you suggested there may be realms out there to discover that today are only possible within our imaginations.
your friend forrest
forrest,lol,reminds me of something hawking said about not wanting to live in a world where everything was known….because what would be the fun!? AGREED! thanks your friend george
Hey George, Jim
My favorite saying is by Gaucho Marx. “I would never want to join a club that would have anybody like me as a member.” Something like “I would never want to be part of a universe that could create a person like me.” Not relevant but still tongue-in-cheek funny.
Your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
An idea for a super linac occurred to me after I had just went through a drive thru window at the local Wendy’s Resturant.
Imagine if a semiconductor diode could be developed with a semiconducting charge depletion active region only one nanometer thick but with a break down voltage of any where from 5 Volts to 100 + Volts. Can you imagine if some how a kilomter long series of such 5 to 100 + Volt steps could be maintained in series with each step 5 to 100 + Volts higher than the next step. I do not know how a potential of 5 TeraVolts to 100 + TeraVolts could be maintained over a distance as short as a kilometer except perhaps by some super exotic dieletric material with an increadibly high dielectric constant which would surround and encase the linear arrangment of diodes as such.
The configuration I am thinking about would have a tiny hole in the middle of each diode in the series to act as an accellerator tube collectively. If a kilometer long linac could be developed as such, we might be able to accellerate electrons into an oncoming beam of positrons or other beam of charged particles wherein the net momentum of impact is zero for the most effecient particle production in terms of the heaviest particles or heaviest rest mass particles that could be created.
A 100 kilometer long linac as such could generate 10 EXP 16 + eV electrons if such a system could be made to work. A space based arrangement of 100,000 kilomter length could produce 10 EXP 19 + eV electrons on demand.
In fact, at 100 Volts/Nanometer electric field intensity, one could produce an accellerator that could effectively accellerate muons to practically any arbitrary energy level above 1 TeV. The first meter of accelerator would accellerate the muon to 100 GeV in about 3 nanoseconds Earth time, to about 100 TeV in 3.3 microseconds Earth time while the gamma factor of the muon would be about 1,000 and 1,000,000 respectively. Depending on the breakdown voltage strength of the diodes, I see no reason why ultimately the Planck Energy and perhaps beyond could not be reached for muons given an accellerator of intergalactic space length scales. The Caveat, How to provide adequate insulation in order to prevent premature discharge. We thus might be able to uncover some awesome physics for use in interstellar travel.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi Jim, George,
Jim your comments remind me of one of my quests, to try to design or see the development of a positron battery or low weight storage system. Such a positron battery train if lined up, as you suggested, could be used as part of a positron rocket propulsion system, or a low-weight ion storage system for oxygen nuclei for earth to space rocketry and aircraft.
your friend forrest
forrest good thinking! hope some of our other members here will become inspired to jump on board with futher technological advances! thanks yet again your friend george
Hi George and Forrest;
It occurred to me that pure mathematical abstract entities, logical entities, etc., might underwrite the existence of the entire cosmos, in short, all multiverses both physical and spiritual. Perhaps in some unknown way, the very reified facbric of space and time and mattergy is ultimately composed of pure mathematical entities as an ultimate sub-stratum or primitive essence in which the would be accidental properties of space and time and mattergy subsist.
Could pure mathematical entities, logical operators, logical rules, etc., some how be underwritten by yet some more sublime level or more primitive level, P1, that we just cannot imagine let alone lexocagraphically define? Could P1 be underwritten by yet another more sublime level, P2, and perhaps so on thru P Aleph 1 and further onward forever in an absolutely never ending series?
This is a very weird concept and is sort of on par in bazaarity with the concept of the lexocagraphical series … E – Aleph 0 is to (E – Aleph 0) -1 is to … E -1 as E-1 is to E0 as E0 is to the empty set as the empty set is to Aleph 0 as Aleph 0 is to E + 1 as E + 1 is to E + 2, …
I have no idea as to the actual nature of any such existential underwriters and the concept seems so bazaar, even to me, that it borders on the sillyness of neogilisms. However, I did once read of a similar concept as proposed in a popularization of science book on cosmology. I do not recall the author but the concept has remained permanently etched within my mind after I had first been aquianted with it.
I will have more to say on this topic in the comming days.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Jim, George,
I do believed that a logical thread underwrites all of reality that could probably be eventually simulated by a set of related equations. But since, according to my theories, the reality of classical mechanics has a certain uncertainty to it just like quantum mechanics, because both are controlled by unpredictable tiny field particles and their energy of motion. In future physics, I believe, these small tolerances will be added to all formulations where very precise calculations are needed. According to this perspective Logic rules and mathematics is a foreign language translation that could never be a precise translation. Logic can also be difficult because everybody is using a little different definition of the words being used. Mathematical logic might some day be used to explain the probability of a calculations variance from possible realities.
your friend forrest
Hi Forrest and George;
Forrest;
It is reassuring, in a way, that the PAN theory allows of a certain uncertainty and that the logic rules and mathematics can never be a precise translation. This reassurance adds to the mystique to theories of creation. Perhaps, if we could learn to use these uncertainties to somehow enginneer or alter the cosmos in which we live, this would be a wondeful thing.
The fact that we recognize the individuality of the human and by collorary that of any ETI persons shows to me the trancendential existence of numbers or ordinality. Perhaps, if pure metamathematical objects exist, and we learned how to minipulate these underpinnings of math and logic, we would find our selves with incredable power, unfortunately that which could be used for evil, but even more importantly, that which could be used for good. If we could only minipulate the physically embodied aspects of any transcendant metamathematical realities, we would still wield incredable power for good. If we could only use metamathematical principles that would underwrite mathematical or logical thinking, we would have minds like the alledgedly pure spirits of angels or have even greater capabilities.
Part of the beauty of our advancement in science and technology is our advancement in our hueristic, epistemological, analytical, and numerical tools. Every time I see an ad for the latest PC to hit the market, I get a sense of the ever newness and freshness of computer science and how computers and software will help us get to the stars.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hey Jim, George,
The Pan theory asserts that everything is deterministic but like quantum mechanics if there’s countless particles moving in and around us there will never be a means coming close to total predictability. As time passes in some cases we may be able to predict a narrower tolerance range than we can now. As far as analytical tools in the future, I don’t see anything that could compete with the possibilities of a computer. In this area I think we’ve just scratched the surface. Never-the-less I cannot conceive of how verbal logic could ever be completely replaced. But who knows?
your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
I had a very bazaar idea this evening about space travel in that I mentally articulated the idea to myself, an idea which I remember having the first glimmer of thought about a decade or so ago.
Basically, the idea involves the notion of each real dimension of space, space-time, or time somehow being composite in such a way that the sets of one dimensional sub-sets of 4-D ordinary Einsteinian space-time are each composite in a way that is real as apposed to a merely mathematical or topological abstraction.
The idea here is that one could somehow travel trough space or in space in 1/2, 3/4, pi, (2) EXP 2, (10) EXP – 1,000, or whatever non positive-integer dimensional space. I have no idea how such travel would manifest itself or translate into movement in 4-D Einsteinian space-time which in effect would be simply travel through 4 space-time dimensions.
One might lexicographically define time travel in 1/pi, 1/[(2) EXP 2], 0.0001, or whatever arbitrary dimensions in time in 4-D Einstieinian space-time wherein the time travel dimensionality is any number located on the right open interval of the line segment between 0 and 1. How one would go about such time travel and how it would manifest itself is anyone’s guess.
One might also lexicographically define non-integer space time dimensional travel wherein the number of the dimensionality is negative. I had mentioned a similar concept on site several months ago but I revisit such a concept because I have had a further evolution of thoughts on such concepts. I will have more to say on this rather bazaar concept in the coming days.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi Jim, George,
Jim, I see that you made this posting at our home base. According to my theories, reality has no Mathematical or Physics reality, in and of itself. These descriptive systems and analogs are solely man’s invention (probably alien civilizations as well) to describe reality. For my space-nut character I would love to see a concept like yours discovered.
But it would sure mess up my theories — whereby accordingly the universe is a very simple place. It wouldn’t just change some of my book, it would disprove the whole thing. :-o Oh well, anything to advance space travel possibilities, I say!! :-s
In my theory if it’s “complicated”, like the dark energy concept or some of the quantum mechanics ideas :-$ , it could have no place in the simplest of all possible realities that I propose, which is the Occam’s razor of all theories, I think <:-)
Hi George and Forrest;
Its good to be back at the PPRII OFT.
I just had a rather bazaar idea, one that I and probably most everyone else has had who has been exposed to the mathematics of high school algebra and the concept of the number line continuum. Basically, the concept is based on the notion of cardinality or size of, or richness of, infinite sets wherein the cardinality Aleph 0 is the number of integers, Aleph 1 is the number of points on the real number line, and so on. Accordingly, it occurred to me that perhaps, just perhaps, there might be a meaning for the notion of hyper-extended number lines wherein a number line actually extends to infinity, i.e., to an integer with the value of Aleph 0, but goes infinitely beyond to what I will call a hyper-integer with a value of Aleph 1, and then onward to a hyper-hyper integer with a value of Aleph 2, and then to an h3 integer, h4 integer,…,h(Aleph 1) integer, … and so on, in a never ending, indefinable lexicographical and symbolic sequence.
I wonder if there could be any real space time analogue to the above concept wherein an actual line drawn in space would or could be hyper-extended as such. I would think that such hyper-extension of space along each dimension would imply absolutely flat Euclidean space. However, perhaps negatively curved space or open saddle shaped Non-Euclidean Space would be compatible with this concept as well. Positively curved space might just result in the line coming back on itself. Perhaps certain positively curved space in the abstract sense could be described in terms of some forms of space time as having a radius of curvature in abstract hyperspace of hyper extended measure, hyper-hyper extended measure, h3 extended measure, h4 extended measure and/or so on.
Any real space time analogue to all of the above speculation would only mean that our universe, hyperspace, the Bulk in P-brane theory or the theory of branes would only be fantastically larger yet above and beyond what would already be beyond our comprehension. Thus there might be all the more ETI civilizations, ETI persons, and territory for human and ETs to explore in the depths of eternity.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Jim, George,
Most BB theorists assert that the universe (or maybe universes) are finite in all ways. My theories also assert the same. But to get somewhere in a unique way, through an unknown but open window would certainly be super exiting.
your friend forrest
Hi George and Forrest;
It occurred to me that as the human race evolves, perhaps we will find new concepts of what it means to travel. I mentioned this notion before but I thought it would be interesting to revisit it with different wordage or prose, if you will, because it is more of a philosophical notion than a real life interstellar propulsion concept.
Forrest, to the above effect, your brief comments in your above posting are most inspiring and gave me insight into the language I use below.
One of the fundamental questions I ask of myself often is “What does it mean to travel?”. My mind, upon conceptually phrasing this question will often run into notions of silliness, perhaps even of a childish reification of silliness in some ways, however, I am usually inspired by the mental images and concepts that I formulate in my mind as a result.
As I mentioned in another thread recently, Stephen Hawking’s notion of two temporal dimensions, real time and imaginary time, have led me to ponder how space time coordinate systems, in both the space/real time and the space/imaginary time sense, could manifest themselves existentially in manned interstellar, or more broadly, spatial-temporal travel of cosmic significance. Perhaps there are yet other temporal dimensions other than real and imaginary time. I often wonder if there could exist other dimensions of the same class as time but different, at least in part in terms of being non-temporal and non-spatial.
I have often wondered what we would experience if we could somehow reach the speed of light in a vacuum or C in terms of inertial travel through space. Perhaps we would somehow enter a new realm that is not accessible to observation for inertial systems traveling less than, and perhaps in the form of tachyons, traveling inertially through space-time at a velocity greater than C. Perhaps in some strange way, inertial travel through space time at exactly C would not only make us physically eternal relative to the background space time reference frame of objects not traveling through space at exactly C, but allow us entry into a whole hidden realm that otherwise remains closed to inspection. For all I know, some sort of sub-quantum reality or any existent so-called quantum hidden variables would be manifested.
As the reader may well be aware, I am having one of my creative thinking spells, but given that there is so much to explore, I felt particularly inspired by Forrest’s above remarks. As we eagerly await the first chemical analysis of the Martian soil by Phoenix, I just have to say once again, in the spirit of Tau Zero “To The Stars!”.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim
Hi George and Forrest;
I had a rather unusual idea, for me at least, about space time travel. The idea first occurred to me early today and involves the concept of space time dimensionality.
Basically the idea involves using any boundary state between the four space time dimensions we are aware of and the higher dimensional space of hyperspace or the space of string theory, the theory of branes or whatever.
My thinking is that since there is a transition between the 4-D ordinary space-time that we are aware of and any existent higher or parallel dimensional space that we are not aware of, there should be a differential boundary or transition region in the fabric of ordinary 4-D space time and the other dimensions. Likewise, there may be boundary transitions between being in the space time of a given universe and the space time fabric outside a given universe, or a transition boundary between being within the space time of a universe and not being in the space time of the given universe.
My thinking is that if such transition regions exist, perhaps we could travel along or within these regions or utilize them for travel of space craft either along side such transitions perhaps in a manner similar to a car driving near or along side the pavement of an asphalt highway or perhaps travel within the transition zone itself in some space-craft miniaturized and broken down in a beam form, or by some form of quantum teleportation using the transition medium as a transport conduit.
Perhaps wormholes could be produced which could wind their way through any existent reified transition medium or even multiple connectivity of different transition medium sections or regions could be set up and used somehow for teleportation or doors in space time.
Thanks;
Your Friend Jim